Chinglish or Whatever(页 1) - 〖E-Writing〗 - 快乐英语论坛

jeannie 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Chinglish or Whatever

Chinglish or Whatever



People say Chinglish is a kind of poor English with typical Chinese way of thinking. However, a foreigner once told me that he was impressed by certain Chinese expressions like “gang of four” (四人帮), “long time no see” (好久不见) etc. He also mentioned that Chinese word “电脑” (electrical brain) is very vivid and easier to remember than English word “computer”.



I personally think that all languages in the world are influenced each other greatly especially in this Internet age, which makes the global being a small Earth Village. Just count how many new words and new phrases have been created or simply absorbed from other languages in the past two decades. Those absorptive and creative languages survived and others are dying…



Another foreigner once said to me when I was quite embarrassed for not able to make myself understood. She said, “Do not speak a foreign language too correctly. Small mistakes can only make your speech more charming.” I don’t know if she is right or she was just teasing me.



So maybe some typical Chinese words would be accepted and spread to the world someday, who knows? What do you think?
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jeannie 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Nobody is interested in this topic? Why not? [em14]
Any comments are welcome! [em01]
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charlieApr 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Dear Jeannie,
The topic you have raised here has,for years,been haunting me,as a very dedicated English learner in China. Almost everybody in our country thinks Chinese should be the most popular language like English in the coming years since it is so demographicaly as well as gegraphically widely spoken and backed up by a ever stronger growing economy and political popularity (I strongly believe so). But it is still pretty hard to predict when our Chinese characters would be symbols of more charm and associated with higher-positioned cultural identity. 
As seen through my own eyes, lots of young poeple here in China are still struggling so hard to get passed in all kinds of English test while seldom relearning those Chinese texts they might long have forgotten. To be honest, I can speak in English better than in Chinese, or at least I sound so when I shift bwteen these two languages. I do not feel good about it, for I feel I am losing something that has been ignored for a long time. 
I have read not once the articles written about French language and culture wars against English dominance. People divide on this issue. Some say it is a narrow sense of natiolnalism to protect one's own cultural influence by such artificial ways. The others argue it is a just cause by defending their own cultural rights. I am quite short on both views, but I do see more and more people are paying attention to the language---French. Shall we do the same thing to reclaim our cultural status in terms of language learning? 
English as a global language does benefit a lot for the whole world as well as offering more advantages to poeple who are native speakers in many ways. However, language itself is also a double-edged sword because is it not true that different cultures are also shaping English into various styles: India English, Pakistani English, or even Chinglish or Chinese English and China English.
I really doubt that Chinese is going to replace English in its dominant position soon. But I do foresee a future that people in Asia would be willing to speak an English with a heavy Chinese flavour. That'd be impressively interesting,like electronic brain, gang of four, or even pouring water on the forum. And Chinese words, I think, are playing a more global role now. Do you know that there is a word spelt Guanxi in English dictionary? If not, check it out! There will be more words like Fengshui, or Qikong and so on in English. People from the West are accepting new words from Chinese. I still remenber last time a foreign teacher(who is an American) once dazzled me with his version of English: yellow movie and colour wolf. I will be damned! This is totally temptingly funny! I can't help laughing anytime I am reminded of this joke in real life.
Chinese langauge has gone through one of the longest human civilizations and still shines. I was once met with an overseas student from US in Beijing University, asking me about Chinese dining etiquette, in Chinese! Perfect Putonghua! He was so eager to speak in Chinese that he always overwhelmed me with his insistance in Chinese speaking whenever I tried to practise my English with him. He simply said: "Hao,wo men chang lian xi." whenever I said "keep in touch" at the parting moment. He was so much like me in the past when I had been learning oral English on campus---so willing to shoot out those this newly acquired language---English.
So now you may also make some predictions yourself by your own observation. Let's give it a bet.
Charlie
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jeannie 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Dear Charlie,


Wow! My small brick has really attracted a large jade – a good deal indeed, isn't it! I can't hold my laughs either when reading your post which is much more informative and irradiative. I believe it is good for everyone’s health if we have several heartfelt laughs everyday! 


I understand the fact that foreigners are so eager to speak in Chinese while Chinese people are keen to show their ability in English speaking; such is human’s nature – grass look greener over the fence! Right? I am really enchanted by the “fence theory” created by Qian Zhongshu, one of the Chinese giant authors I respect the most, in his great novel [A Surrounded City] and admire so much on his profound insight on human’s nature. 
Jeannie 





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<P 0cm BORDER-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: BORDER-LEFT: PADDING-BOTTOM: PADDING-LEFT: BORDER-TOP: PADDING-RIGHT: 8.0pt? mso-padding-alt: .75pt; #6595D6 solid mso-border-alt: none; medium break-all; WORD-BREAK: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM:>

</DIV>


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TheYeti 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

There is a tendency for people to lump all kinds of Chinese written/spoken English as Chinglish, when we should divide them into three categories (1) Improper/Incorrect English (2)Chinese speicific terms/phrase/slogan and (3) Funny English due to improper use or combination of words and phrases.
Much of the first kind are from people whose command in English is poor, but who, for economic reasons, are forced to take up jobs as translators or authors of English documents--such as product descriptions and instruction manuals-- for commercial establishments. The numerous non-English company "introductions" (Exhibit I) ( you can find them by using the search words "company introduction" since competent translators would have put down "company overview/profile"/"about us"/about xxx ), or product descriptions such as " s_e_x hygiene cup of once" (Exhibit II) Many of the outrageous billboards such as "spread to f_u-c*k the fruit" (footnote 2) are the results of "software translations" some people employed. They are either totally irresponsible, or are completely blind to proper English, that they fail to see the mistake they are making.
 Terms such as "long time no see" have long since integrated into the mainstream of English. Gangs of Four is an accepted term introduced through the media, and is often imitated by western press, authors and comedians. These I call "China specific terms" and should be, and would be, incorporated into the English language, as many other foreign phrases have done so before. However, make no mistake about it, not all "Chinese specific phrases" are correct. My favour beef is "Ritual Girl" (hostess, usherettes) supposedly an "officially adopted term." Wonder what kind of ritual they perform. 
 That leaves us the third kind of "Chinglish." They are not outrageous, hilarious or incorrect (in some cases), just "different" or "have a Chinese flavour to them. (See footnote 1) 
Here is an article from a site called Chinglish 101 that is interesting to read : 为中式英语(金语)辩护 In defense of Chinglish <a href="http://www.cybercourier.com/cer/chinglish/" target="_blank" >http://www.cybercourier.com/cer/chinglish/</A>
Here is part of their first paragraph "Chinglish should not be confused with pidgin (洋泾浜) English. The latter being a contact language between people who speak different tongues. Chinglish, on the other hand, is the product of Chinese English speakers who apply Chinese syntax and grammar rules to English ones. In a sense, it is a language of the educated Chinese in China."
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( Exhibit I) Source: <a href="http://www.decorationforyou.com/english/new.asp" target="_blank" >http://www.decorationforyou.com/english/new.asp</A> 
<DIV class=quote>Great wood in pedestal in smoke industry limited company, foundation in 2000.Current the employee's 68 people in company, the technical personnel's 10 people of among them various profession, total property 5,000,000 dollars, cover to operate the 40 acres ： area</DIV>
(Exhibit II) Source: Collection and Correction of Chinglish 第 56 楼 . <a href="http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardID=11&ID=10928&star=6&page=1" target="_blank" >http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardID=11&ID=10928&star=6&page=1</A> 
<IMG src="http://tinypic.com/98soit.jpg" border=0>
Footnote I: The Chinglish described in "The Translator's Guide to Chinglish" are mostly grammatically correct, but stylistically very "Chinese." See Review of Pinkham's book 中式英語之鑒 <a href="http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=10702" target="_blank" >http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=10702</A>
<o:p>Footnote II: There are similar photos on the Internet, but some people claimed they have been doctored. This one is authenticated by the photographer who claimed he took it himself. Source: <a href="http://efl.htmlplanet.com/" target="_blank" >http://efl.htmlplanet.com/</A></o:p><IMG src="http://efl.htmlplanet.com/spreadem.jpg" border=0>
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jeannie 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Hi, dear Yeti,
I am glad that you joined our discussion and I am impressed by your excellent English and your convincing examples in your post. 
I hope more people to make comments on all topics and make the forum hum.
Jeannie
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Shirleyzh 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Hey,guys!I'm interested in your discussions very much.And here I want to give you my point of views.
 Well,I think we,non-native speakers, must speak and write accurate English.If we learn the very original English,we can feel and know the very original English culture .As far as the Chinglish and Eng-Chinese(my own creation),they are the phenomenon of worldwide communication,cooperation and somehow the competition .So if our motherland is more powerful than America,we don't have to learn Ehglish,but Americans have to learn Chinese.Unfortunately we are not.So we have to learn the foreign language,especially English. On the other hand,we formostly have to master our own mother lanuage so that we can spread our own language and culture to foreigners.Let the world know China.
That's all.Sorry I don't have enough time to comprehensively express my point of views.

jeannie 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

Dear Shirley,



It is true that quite a lot of foreigners are learning Chinese language nowadays and struggling even harder than our Chinese English-learners – the four tones have muddled all of them up let alone Chinese characters! I am not kidding! 



Once a Yugoslavian aged lady said she would like to learn a little Chinese from me but soon got tired and bored and muddled by the four tones of “妈麻马骂”；“汤堂躺烫” and gave up after five months’ studying. It is not my fault, believe me! 



Another smart young man from Germany learned so quickly that I could hardly follow him - sometimes I could not be fully prepared for his lessons. He would rather learn daily-use spoken Chinese than take formal lessons. One sentence he liked best and said it everywhere to almost everyone when shopping or taking a taxi or whatever – “别宰我!” It worked well indeed and made him very happy!



However, no matter how well they speak Chinese language, I have never met a single foreigner who writes Chinese characters! It makes Chinese language teaching very difficult for we all know there are plenty of Chinese characters pronounced just the same!

Share with you Shirley.
Jeannie
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TheYeti 发表于 1970-1-1 08:33 AM

The four tones of the Chinese language is one of the major stumbling block for non-Chinese. Every time I meet someone who is learning the language, they have the same two complaints (1) the four tones and (2) the fact that you cannot reconstitute the Chinese character from the way it is pronounce--i.e. it is not a phonic language.
Having spoken both Chinese and English for a very long time, I find that to be true. However, I find Chinese grammar to be a lot more flexible than English, and Chinese sentence structure (only for the modern version) is a lot easier to handle than English. After having learn English since grade 5 in elementary school and continued on to using the language on a daily basis for many years since after high school, I find the language difficult to perfect. There are just too many rules, and too many exceptions to keep track of. Fortunately, unless you are usuing the language professionally, you are not required to write or speak perfectly. I found many learners of English in China has this morbid fear of not being perfect in their spoken language. That fear is unfounded. You only need to be good at it to pass an exam. But if you are using it as a tool, you don't have to be exact--you just need to be understandable. A little accent is not going to hurt either. Most native Britains, Canadians, Americans, Aussie...speak with accents. TV characters, news announcer have "near perfect accents" because that's part of the job requirement. For mere mortals like us, getting understood is good enough, and that mean ***you got to make sense with what you say***: incomphrehensible gibberish (pidgen English) is the real hindrance.

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Chinglish or Whatever